fredand Seniormester
23. februar 2020 - 20:12 Der er 34 kommentarer

Can we figure out what wrong with this old PC?

Hello guys,
I have this old PC, that does not start.
Right now I have removed the dvd-reader and the hdd. I inserted an bootable USB-stick in one usb-port.
Bur when I press the on switch this is what happens:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u3jWwna6IB09psBLFOT1Bm-u8OaRpPH3/view?usp=drivesdk
I thought that I would be abled to enter bios, but the machine turns off right away.
The bootable USB-stick blinks, but the keyboard does not.

This is how the motherboard looks like:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uBOZu1sYLiTFBAaMwE_MQ1EmLkGLeC6f/view?usp=drivesdk

Could it be some onboard battery that does not provide any more?
Best regards
Fredrik
ink Ekspert
23. februar 2020 - 20:21 #1
You could try to replace the small round battery on the motherboard.
See if you can enter bios (F2) and set date to today.
Then try to boot again.
fredand Seniormester
23. februar 2020 - 20:53 #2
Hello,
I removed the battery and then the keyboard blinked and the computer responded to my stroke. How ever it turned off right away. Tomorrow I will try to find a new battery and see what happens next.
Best regards
Fredrik
hjolsen Ekspert
24. februar 2020 - 07:32 #3
Try using a PS2 keyboard instead of  USB keyboard !
fredand Seniormester
24. februar 2020 - 18:49 #4
Hello guys,
No big progress yet.

Today I changed the battery, I have to admitt that the replacement battery was not brand new but my volt meter measured it to 3.3 V. The old one measured just 2.6 V.
But no progress.
I also removed my usb keyboard and inserted a ps2 mouse and keyboard. The keyboard responded to my inputs. I mange to enter the BIOS, but just for a second before the computer shuts down. So it seems like there is something else that might be wrong.

I also tried to remove half of the RAM, and change place of them systematically.
So if you guys got any ideas please let me know.
Best regards
Fredrik
ink Ekspert
24. februar 2020 - 19:05 #5
It will only boot if the date and clock are correct, so back to bios and change.
fredand Seniormester
24. februar 2020 - 19:29 #6
Hello Ink,
Thanks for your reply.
Right now the problem is that I can not enter the BIOS, the computer shuts of before I can do anything, really strange.
Best regards
Fredrik
fredand Seniormester
25. februar 2020 - 07:08 #7
Hello guys,
What do you think of this theory; perhaps it is the start button?

Please see images:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1utgQabU6M6cFe1N9rFbpxFQZ4hl_fZcE
and
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1unRU7ScNRMUnC_f5Hz1UIkA1iBjFPG53

But how does the start button work?

If I just push it once, the computer starts and then after like 30 seconds the computer turns off.
If I hold it in the pressed state the same happens.

Could it be that this button is designed to just send a signal?
Like given the computer is in a turned-off state, pushed once (or hold in pressed) it just sends a signal to the motherboard to start. Once released it is intended to "not send the signal any more".

It might be designed to just send a signal sInce it is common computers that are turned on, you could reboot it if you hold it pressed for like five seconds.

Or could it be that the button should stay in "on" state when pushed?

What do you think guys, if I cut the cord a bit down (so I can splice it back) and just connect the two wires and connect the computer to the wall socket and see what happens?
(It might be the same as when I hold the button pressed I think.)

Best regards
Fredrik
fredand Seniormester
25. februar 2020 - 07:42 #8
Hello,
I found this thread:
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/pc-shuts-off-after-a-few-seconds.2834715/post-19332921
So to test the switch I perhaps should;
1 cut the cords
2 connect the wires and after a second release the wires
... so the motherboard just get the start signal but nothing more.
What do you think guys?
Best regards
hjolsen Ekspert
25. februar 2020 - 09:16 #9
Much more easy ro test , remove the wires from motherboard and then shorten the 2 pins with at screwdriver - remove it when it starts !
fredand Seniormester
25. februar 2020 - 11:39 #10
Thanks for your reply, seems like a better way.
Best regards
Fredrik
fredand Seniormester
25. februar 2020 - 19:43 #11
Hello guys,
I managed to shortsen the two pins. How ever the computer shuts down again after a few seconds. So it does not looks like the button is the error source.
I will now try to unmount the psu and see if I can see if it might be the error source.
Any ideas are very welcome!
Best regards
Fredrik
milter Ekspert
25. februar 2020 - 20:14 #12
Hi fredand.

Just, as a matter of sheer curiosity: What is your mother tongue?

An answer to that question might widen the range of answers :-)
fredand Seniormester
25. februar 2020 - 20:28 #13
Hello,
I am from Sweden, I have to admit that sometimes I do not understand danish. So I prefer english. But I must say that eksperten.dk is the far best IT forum I have ever found on the net. 1-0 to Denmark.
Best regards
Fredrik
milter Ekspert
25. februar 2020 - 21:30 #14
Hi Fredrik.

Well, I still remember Ole Madsen's goal against Sweden 20. juni 1965 in a soccer match. So, can we make it 2-0?  :-)

Getting back to your problem. You never (as far as I can see) gave us the make and model number of your motherboard. Your picture in  your original question doesn't have enough resolution to show it..

You call it an "old" computer. Again, as far as I can see, you never mentioned the operating system of your computer or the age of it. Was the operating system upgraded? Information about that might give us a clue.
fredand Seniormester
26. februar 2020 - 07:56 #15
Hello again,
I manage to find the info about the product on netonnet. They still got the info even though they do not sell it anymore.

https://www.netonnet.se/art/NoSection/hp-imedia-b2710-nc-l-3220t/087174.9223372036854775807/

Unfortunately I do not think they mention any spec of the motherboard.

I also might need to point out during these tests that I have removed the hdd. Correct me if I am wrong but I should be able to enter BIOS even there is no hdd connected, right?

Best regards
Fredrik
fredand Seniormester
26. februar 2020 - 07:58 #16
Btw, I bought it in 2009, pretty old then.
fredand Seniormester
26. februar 2020 - 19:33 #17
Hello guys,
Tonight I managed to check the pins from the PSU.
I used this chart as a reference:
https://images.app.goo.gl/7iqG55yT372zRGKS9
Unfortunately, all the pins were correct.
Except pin 20, in my PSU I just do not have a cable to it, the hole is empty, no pin, no nothing. But I guess it should be like that.

So far everything looks like there is something wrong with the motherboard or the CPU attached to it.

Any ideas or suggestions are very welcome.
Best regards
Fredrik
fredand Seniormester
26. februar 2020 - 19:51 #18
Hello again guys,
I see that the cooler fins above the cpu is pretty dusty.
How would you guess I unmount the dan above the CPU?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vdC8csLQ2jNX5yzdfFwq-FwZP25mupv_/view?usp=drivesdk
I noticed that the screws just go round and round, do need to unmount the whole motherboard perhaps?
Best regards
Fredrik
fredand Seniormester
26. februar 2020 - 19:59 #19
There seems to be some kind of spring, do you think I am supposed to removed it to unmount the fan?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vp92EwHpBAHwQZJewirth8uAsmF--Plz/view?usp=drivesdk
falster Ekspert
26. februar 2020 - 22:48 #20
Are You able to check if the voltage of the power supply is correct?

(Wrong voltage may be the issue causing the problem.)
hjolsen Ekspert
27. februar 2020 - 05:40 #21
The easy way to test if it is the PSU  is to try with another (thats working)
Measuring the voltage dont show if its unstable when connectet

Removing the cooler should be pretty simple by removing the 4 screws !
fredand Seniormester
27. februar 2020 - 06:47 #22
Hello,
Thanks for the reply, this PSU do not have any switch for switching between 110V - 230V so I guess it must be set for ~230V that we use in Sweden.

Tonight I will try to remove the motherboard and clean the cooler fins.
I got a hunch that in fact might be an overheating problem. When I start the computer for the first time it will take like 40 sec before it shuts down. After a couple of repeats, that time has sunk to just 30 sec.

I will be back with news amigos!
Best regards
Fredrik
thomas_bk Forsker
27. februar 2020 - 15:20 #23
Could you perhaps take a picture of the insides of the computer and post online and link to it?
I could be helpful to visualize the components.
fredand Seniormester
27. februar 2020 - 15:35 #24
Hello,
Thanks for your reply.
There is a link to a picture of the motherboard in the tread start.
Tonight I will try to manage better pictures.
Best regards
Fredrik
thomas_bk Forsker
27. februar 2020 - 16:57 #25
Picture of the actual pc please
thomas_bk Forsker
27. februar 2020 - 17:01 #26
Sorry, i didnt remember the actual beginning of the thread when i read the last post.

Have you tried to ‘spam’ f2 when the computer startes to see if you can get into bios before it shuts down?
fredand Seniormester
27. februar 2020 - 17:27 #27
Hello,
No problem, yes I have tried that but as soon I am getting into bios the computer dies. So I do not mange to do that. It is matter of seconds from start before it dies. Did you see the movie in the beginning of the thread?
Best regards
Fredrik
hjolsen Ekspert
27. februar 2020 - 17:50 #28
For your own "fun" it can be nice to go on checking out but i  would have replaced the MB from stock or ebay (where you can find a LGA775 board for les than 200 DDK)

But some last tries :
Have you removed all connections from MB (front usb/cardreader/sound) ?
Check all Capacitors , that they do NOT have a tiny bump but are flat at the top !
milter Ekspert
27. februar 2020 - 18:20 #29
In #22 you write: "When I start the computer for the first time it will take like 40 sec before it shuts down. After a couple of repeats, that time has sunk to just 30 sec."

That, to me, indicates a heat problem. Had it been one or two seconds, it could be a hardware problem. As you describe it there, I doubt very much that the PSU or motherboard are faulty.

You should be able to remove the cooler fan by just unscrewing the four visible screws at the top of it. They may feel a bit "spongy", but try to continue. Unscrew each screw 3-4 complete turns at a time.

A closer look at your picture in your question reveals that the motherboard probably is an ECS MCP73VT-PM Socket LGA775 mATX. And a closer look at it also reveals a lot of gunk in the cooling fins underneath the fans. If you have a vacuum cleaner, use it with care just above the fan while blocking the fans from spinning with a pen or something similar.
fredand Seniormester
28. februar 2020 - 19:42 #30
Hello guys,
Yesterday I got occupied we some stuff, but Tonight I managed to take it apart. I cleand the motherboard easy ang gentle with a vacumcleaner. I also removed the fan and vent it through with air preasure. Alot if dust come off.

So I tried to start it like this:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1waTwXjxGRyiFJbWyOcsyV1VKfZaH0hUV/view?usp=drivesdk
But as you can see it shuts down.
But correct me if I am wrong does it say something about:
CMOS checksum bad
... on the black screen before I managed to go into bios?

Best regards
Fredrik
fredand Seniormester
28. februar 2020 - 19:50 #31
milter Ekspert
28. februar 2020 - 20:23 #32
Read here about "CMOS checksum bad":
https://www.lifewire.com/cmos-checksum-error-what-it-is-and-how-to-fix-it-4689193

There is a short BEEP from the BIOS at around 9 seconds in your video. With an AMI BIOS that means a fault with the RAM according to this site:
https://www.computerhope.com/beep.htm

Test your RAM-blocks with only one at a time in the first slot to see if that makes a difference.

Try also to set the correct time in BIOS. Turn off the computer and wait one minute. Turn it on again and see if has retained the correct time. If not, the battery is bad.
fredand Seniormester
29. februar 2020 - 14:20 #33
Hello,
I have tried several attempts, with different RAM in different slits.
How ever, one attempt, that I could not repeat unfortenately, I could enter the BIOS and set time and date. But the date did not remain until next time I managed to enter bios for a couple of sec. The battery gives 3.27V so I guess it is ok.
How ever there was a smell of burn electricity, so I guess this is a over heating problem.
But what do you think May it be a motherboard issue or a cpu issue?
Best regards.
falster Ekspert
29. februar 2020 - 15:35 #34
After some "software-, battery- and memoryadvices", which I think You have allready covered, this link

https://www.lifewire.com/cmos-checksum-error-what-it-is-and-how-to-fix-it-4689193

concludes:

If everything has failed so far, it may be hardware damage. Before you buy a new motherboard or recycle the machine, have a professional check it out to be sure.

But #28 gives a hint of a cheap MB solution, so maybee You go on :-)
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